Kim No Am: It is 23rd Feburary, Sunday today. I am an exhibition curator Noh-am Kim and we are here at Art Space Hue, located in Paju book city, to interview the invited artist Yoon Jin Sup. As you know well, Mr. Yoon has worked as an artist, a critic, and a curator and through the activities in those various fields, he provided an important platforms to fellow and junior. Uh… as far as I know, recently, he worked more actively as an artist than as a critic or an exhibition manager.

Therefore, we, Art Space Hue who normally host projects by inviting young artists, decided to interview an experienced artist who has worked in various fields, and I think that this can be an opportunity to create a network with young artists. The first question I want you ask Mr. Yoon is that… I heard that you had rich literary knowledge and were very interested in various fields in art and artist since when you were a child. What was the reason that you applied for an art college and wanted to be an artist, and how did your family reacted about your talent and your choice?

Yoon Jin Sup: It was not like there was an artist in my family or something. I was born in the country and grew up there, so it was very natural to make or draw something with materials from the nature. My hometown, Cheonan-goon, Sunghwan-eup, Myun, suhyang-li, is where lots of clay is found which is used to make pottery in a kiln.

So, there were a lot of pits in my hometown. I used to take some clay from the pits and made things during classes at school and home as well. Therefore, I naturally started making sculptures since then. I remember that I used to make abstract shapes of sculptures with clay and pasted things on walls when a house was being renovated. Also, since I had many siblings, I naturally picked up pencils and crayons and drew pictures on my older brothers’ notes that they left out.

I even drew on my mother’s bible. She is a devout Christian. In the bible, there were empty pages at the end of each chapter and I drew pictures on the space. I heard from my mother that one day, a minister rebuked my mother for letting a child to draw a picture on the bible. So, if you ask me about the background of my experimental art… I still remember the thing called ‘Akajinki’

Kim No Am: I know, the red antiseptic…

Yoon Jin Sup: Right, the red antiseptic… My brothers used have that. I used to use it as a red paint and drew things like cartoons. Like some other artists who use red pepper paste or mandarins as a paint, I just saw it as a color. And… when I was young, there was round shaped paints that my mother called ‘Enogi’ which means painting tool in Japanese. There were 12 colors in small tin pails. When I had a chance, I used to paint with them. Anyway, those are my memories of my childhood.

When I was in middle school… um… I used to break rules. I was sensitive and going through puberty. When I was in an art club, my cousin, who is thirteen years older than me, was majoring in law at Dongguk University. There were lots of books from thought to many others in his room. So, I had chanced to read them. Now I think they influenced me very much.

And another thing is that, when my sister in law married to my brother, she brought a book of the Korean literature collection, and there were many short stories like essays of Leesang (Kim HaeKyung), some poems, and a story called 'Wings'. They were so avant-garde.

Kim No Am: There are the first generation of Korean modernists.

Yoon Jin Sup: Right. So after reading them, I skipped school a lot. However, even though I didn’t go to the school, I pursued something experimental and avant-garde. I bore the thoughts since then. One time, I bought a book with the money for a school trip, and there was ‘The castle’ written by Kafka, I also bought a book of short stories and Akudagawa Ryunoske, the Japanese short story collection, which includes stories about Hadong, Gapba, They are quoted in my writings on facebook and other SNS later.

So, even though those ideas were formed when I was young, they are potential all the time but appear some time. I think it is very interesting that they just pop up in my head. I think those things I read when I had good memory remained in my brain.

Kim No Am: Um… As far as I know, when you were sophomore and junior in college, when you were in early twenties, you worked with a mainstream artist Lee Geun Yong who was actively working at the Korean art world. Could you please tell us how you get a chance to work with him for some projects and ST group activities?

Yoon Jin Sup: Um… rather than that story, when I was about to enter a high school, there was a weekly newspaper called Doksuh-sin mun. Later I found that it was issued by Kim Jong Kyu who is a director of the museum of Samsung publishing company. I heard it from him that he issued the newspaper. So I told him I have read the newspaper when I was in middle school.

Kim No Am: Ah… the doyen…

Yoon Jin Sup: Right. The doyen… What I was impressed by it was, I think it was published in the newspaper in 1970, so called famous in our art history, in Sajik park, Jeong Gang Ja, Kim Gu Lim, Jeong Chan Seung, and an actor Goh Ho organized the Fourth group, and hold a funeral for the existing culture. They put flowers and tools like shovel in a coffin and marched. Soon, they were arrested and be remitted to a summary trial. It was widely reported by the newspaper and I read it when I was in year 1 in high school.

The newspaper also belonged to my cousin. I thought the article was very shocking and interesting, so cut it off and kept it. I have had no idea about what was happening in the art world, but by encountering the incident, which was called as a happening at that time, I realized that those things were happening and it remained in my heart and be helpful for me later.

And… I entered a University on my second try in 1975. That time, I was running an art studio in Moraene, with my college friend Yoon Jae Myung from Kyung-ju. It was to teach students for entrance exam of art colleges. One day, Lee Geun Yong came to my studio to create an art work with his assistant.

He hung a big piece of fabric up on a wall and expressed an illusion by spraying colors with air brush. He made a bright part by making a shade and it became an image when it was opened. The art work was very famous. He came to my studio to do it, and it was time to meet him.

Then later, 2 years later, when I was in junior year in college, since my older sisters lived in Seoul, I went to my fourth older sister. She lived in Northern Ahyun-dong and there was an overpass which still exists now. There was a building next to the overpass and there was Mr. Lee’s studio on the 2nd level which was called ‘Lee Geon Yong Studio’. He was famous for participating the Paris biennale with Shinchehang…

Kim No Am: Right, he was famous…

Yoon Jin Sup: He was a star artist but since his art works were not sold well, he was in need. So he was running an art studio for entrance exam. I used to meet him by visiting the studio several times. Other visitors who used to came to the studio were Sung Neung Kyung, Kim Yong Min, since they were trio. Jang Seok won was also joined them and they used to hold a trio event and a quartet event. We used the word ‘event’ at that time. Mr. Lee was the person who acted the event for the first time in 1975, at Baek-rok gallery.

Right before is the generation of young artists coalition exhibition, consists of Jeong Chan Seung, Kang Guk Jin,The gap between the two generations is about eight to ten years because the Young Artists Coalition exhibition was in 1967. So, when I visit the studio I see many kinds of people like a scenario writer and a self-appointed philosopher. It was like a guest house. People came there and talked to each other. There were also Kim Han and S.T members including Kim Bok Young… and in 1977 we had an event together at Seoul gallery.

I was an absolutely obscure artist, actually a student, and Mr. Lee was a star artist, but he asked me to act the performance together. So I acted three performances with him. It was ground breaking, and little after that, I was suggested to join the S.T group, although I didn’t have much experience in that fleld. Therefore I was very proud of myself for joining an outstanding group. But, my teachers at school did not like it. I remember one of the professors, Lim Wan Gyu, summoned me to his office and told me "an artist must become a late boomer"

Kim No Am: As far as I know, In the middle of 80s, you taught students for about 7 to 8 years. During the period you studied about aesthetics. I wonder how the period of the time influenced to your later activities as an artist and a critic.

Yoon Jin Sup: After finishing my military service in 1981… since I entered the army after graduating the college, I joined the army in1979 and finished it in June, 1981. At that time, my brother in law was working in Yeongdeungpo technical high school as the chief of school affairs. I visited him to say hello and he asked me to come to his school and give lectures. So I worked there as an instructor for 6 months and became a fulltime teacher later on.

I worked from the first semester in 1982 to February 1989, as an art teacher, but since it was a technical high school, there were departments of architecture, electricity, machinery, and design. I was asked to teach the theory of design as well, so I looked into the subjects. There were ‘eui-jang’, which was a Japanese expression of design, study of painting, study of materials, I mean craft materials, and chromatics, so there were lots of subject more than just art.

Anyway, I had to teach those subjects. If you see the study of craft materials, it requires a deep study. I studied a lot while teaching the subject. There were terminologies such as body-centered cubic lattice and face-centered cubic lattice, so when I did not understand I used to ask the teachers in department of machinery. Study of painting was also very difficult. I used to ask lots of questions to the teachers in department of architecture.

But they were so helpful for me, because, for example, there was something called ‘ dojang’ which means painting in easy word, and these days there is boonchae painting(spray painting) which is widely used by sculptors, and also used with industrial coating for cars. So the basic knowledge about them was very helpful for my critical activities.

Kim No Am: Uh… When you were in sophomore and junior year in college, when you were in early 20s, you joined some art works with a famous mainstream artist Lee Geon Yong. Could you please tell us how you started projects and S.T group activities with him?

Yoon Jin Sup: It was the period of that the Hyundai gallery moved to Sagan-dong and was erecting a building for reopen, and there were almost no galleries in Insa-dong. As I remember, those galleries such as Munheon gallery and Hyundai gallery were moved to another place already, and Sun gallery was about to open in 1977.

There were about ten galleries including Tongin gallery, and the Fine Art center was opposite the Jogyesa Temple. It was a two story of Japanese styled building, and there was creaking stairs. What I am telling you is before the art center moving to the literary art hall, I mean the dongsung-dong Culture and Art Center. That was where I used to spend time a lot.

So, before entering the college, maybe it was when I was studying one more year to enter the college, in an art academy in Gwanghwamun, I used to visit there and meet an artist Park Gil Woong. He was an artist who received a president’s award for abstract art at the National Art Exhibition for the first time in history. Maybe he had a cancer and I found it later. Anyway I remember that he showed his painting on the whole wall in a second floor exhibition room.

Kim No Am: So it was so called installation art.

Yoon Jin Sup: Yes, It was installation art. I saw it. And, anyway.. there were not many chances to see that, at that time. But in 1977, opposite the Jogyesa Temple, there was a gallery run by a legendary art dealer Kim Moonho. He had closed the Myungdong gallery and was about to make comeback with the new gallery. He was working with an old lady named Han Sang Su who was an embroideress. So there was an embroidery shop at the entrance of the building and Gyunji gallery was inside of the building, but he passed away a few years later.

So, when we were doing S.T group exhibition I went there and gave performance named ‘We stroke’. In a small cart, I put colored paper, gravel, and twigs, and drag it in front of the audience. Then, audience also participated in the performance with making a fence and a house together.

Lately, when I met Kwon Yeo Hyun in 2009, I told him about the performance I directed at The World Ceramic Biennale Korea, the global performance show named a ceramic fashion. While we were talking on a bus and I gave him a book about it. He looked at it and told me "Oh, You were a nomad" and I said "Now I think I did".

There were only 2,000 members in Korean Fine Art Association at that time, even though the number of the present members is over 23,000. So the book of member list printed by silkscreen technic called Garibang was very thin when I saw it. And it was not difficult to see the members like in an exhibition or a gathering at a bar after exhibitions, so they met the same people here and there and their friendship lasted until now, they are the doyen artists in Korea now.

Kim No Am: So you started major activities in the middle of Korean art from your early 20s, it is hard to say how many people were in the center, but anyway, you experienced major activities already. Then, at that time, the people who studied in art colleges in 70s can be called the generation of Korean hippies…

Yoon Jin Sup: That’s right.

Kim No Am: It was during the Vietnam War, and the freedom of speech was limited in our society. However, since people have a desire to express their thought, how to express them via art works was might have been the artists’ big concern at that time. So, I think the issues that the artists suggest through the title or the name of their art works is very important. In the 70s, not only you, what were your senior and fellow artists interested in?

Yoon Jin Sup: Actually, the time when we had freedom of speech was in 1979 or so. According to my experience, it was very rare that artists refer to the politics. I remember Sung Neung Kyung did an event of cutting a newspaper. Now I think it was very defiant message and was dealing with the social issues. But we saw it as conceptual art.

I mean, we thought it was conceptual art and tried to understand it logically, but did not think it was related to politics. Lee Geon Yong also has an episode that he did a performance shouting ‘come on’ on Nansan Mountain and arrested. There is another interesting episode about Mr. Lee. There was a shoe store named Picasso under his studio. But Picasso is who draw Guernica, So he was seen as a defiant person. Who the owner was asked why he chose the name as Picasso.

Kim No Am: Because that’s what everyone knows…

Yoon Jin Sup: That’s right. So there were some not-so-funny episodes like that. At that time, strangely, the issues we were talking about were all about conceptual art or western events. So, as I have written many times, people like Jang Seok Won and Kim Yong Min approached to the thought of Laotzu since it was dealing with our daily lives.

And Mr. Lee as well, he approached to linguistics, philosophy of Chuang-tzu and Laotzu, and logic, including logic of virtue. Sung Neung Kyung used to held an event of reading and clipping newspaper from the social point of view. So, I remember that we used to talk dry topics and actually talked about abstract things.

Kim No Am: Ideological things…

Yoon Jin Sup: Right we used to talk about ideological things, so if you had been listening to us, you might have wondered what we were talking about. I heard from a senior artist that he saw that I was talking to my friend Jung Kyung Ho while looking at several stones, and said " Huh… it can be an art work", "No, it can’t". He told me that since he was working on figurative art, he remembers that I was having that conversation with my friend…

I think I lived an interesting life. I did not spend much time in a practical room, because, at the beginning I tried to paint pictures there but soon I started yawning. It was so boring and I couldn’t stand it, so I went to the reading room which was on the 4th floor of the literature building. Since it was open-stack I read books as many as I wanted. It was a real study and the knowledge I acquired from them became a platform for me later.

Kim No Am: When you were working as an artist in your 20s. What attracted you as themes of your art, or what were you interested in?

Yoon Jin Sup: Somehow…. As I told you before, I was interested in linguistics. Through the interest in linguistic, as I studied conceptual art deeply, I could approach to something…what can I say… like a language game. So, one day, when I visited Lee Geun Yong’s studio, I found a Noam Chomsky’s book titled transformational generative grammar, which was translated into Korea. So I brought it by exchanging with one of my book, Art in America, and I still have it.

And from the Institute of language and linguistics at the University of Foreign studies, a mook called language and linguistics is published. I bought 3 books of it and still keep it. There were also other books related to linguistics were translated into Korean and published by Moonji Publishing Co., Ltd, so I studied linguistics with the books.

So, on the opening day of ST Group Show in 1977, as I mentioned before, we did the performance called ‘We stroke’. On the floor, I write a phrase with a chalk, for example, on Cheol-su’s rice paddy… Cheol-su’s family is richer that Young-hee’s. Those are from my ideas. I also made silkscreeen print works related to language, and the work ‘the color of the lady’s shoes, who is walking through Shinchon’ was also one the three performances I did with Lee Geun Yong at the Seoul gallery in 1977.

On the performance, I had a yellow document envelop and take out some stuff from the yellow envelope. They were yellow chrysanthemum, pebbles, white pebbles, yellow rubber band, and yellow colored paper. Then, I tore up the colored paper, painted the white pebbles with yellow crayon, and winded the yellow rubber band around the pebbles, and picked each petal off from the flower. And then I put all of them in the envelope and wrote on the outside of it ‘the color of the lady’s shoes, who is walking through Shinchon’. This means that when we call it yellow, it is not yellow already.

I mean, when we call a yellow here as a yellow, it is not a yellow. This is similar to intuitive discernment of Buddhahood. However, when we apply it to the color of the lady’s shoes who is walking through Shinchon, it is the color. So, as we say lot in linguistics, it is like that if you call it rubber, it is not rubber, and you can see a similar philosophy in Buddhism. I applied it to the performance.

But, a topic comes after one another, about a language. And, I restarted performance activities while I was studying aesthetics in college. It was from 1986. And the Arcosmos museum that Lee Geun Yong organized was in Namyoung-dong.

He hosted 86 Installation and Performance Art Festival there, and so many artists from all over the country brought lots of good works, so it was a real hit. I also released my work there while studying aesthetics at college. I did a series of performances later on, for example, my works like big eye are very spectacular but very defiant at the same time.

There is also a scene that I hold a raw chicken like a violin and cut it with a saw like playing the violin. It was an expression of the phrase, ‘even though you wring a chicken's neck, the morning still comes’, what Kim Young Sam said when he was the leader of his party. I did the performance with wearing black sunglasses like a big brother, and it was very participative in politics.

Kim No Am: It was the most participative during the President Jeon Doo Hwan’s government.

Yoon Jin Sup: Right. It was very oppressive in 70s. We had long hair and wearing trench coat when we were in college. When I was with Sung Neung Kyung and Lee Geun Yong, we used smoke a pipe. Although I was young, I grew a mustache to look older and used to smoke a pipe with senior artists while talking about which pipe is good. It was simply an oppressive era.

When I was coming back from my hometown after spending vacation period there, the bus passes through PanKyo, Banpo and reaches the terminal. But right before the terminal, there was a check point, and a military police officer and a police officer used to get on the bus. Then, I was very afraid because men who had long hair used to arrested and had to cut their hair. It was the time when the police used crackdown on women’s skirt length. Wearing short skirt was misdemeanor that time.

Kim No Am: In 70s…

Yoon Jin Sup: Yes, so, even a streaking appeared as a social phenomenon. It is running streets, naked, in the middle of nights. It is called st…streaking. It was a social problem at that time. So, it was a brutal era.

Kim No Am: Uh… in 90s, so after the 1988 Olympic games, there was a period that critics used to take the lead the Korean art circle for about 4 to 5 years. During the period, installation art was boomed for a short period. I am wondering how you began to work as a critic in earnest, after working as an artist. Uh… and also please tell us about the condition in Korean fine art in 1990s.

Yoon Jin Sup: Well, in 1987, after the 6.29 Announcement of Democratization, President Noh Tae Woo’s government was established. They were freedom and rights that citizens finally achieved by themselves. Around the time, among Korean artists, a theoretical term, post modernism, appeared as I remember. Performances became more active that time.

Speaking of performances, when it comes to events alone, the number of events persisted in 70s but decreased from the beginning of 80s. The reason was because Lee Geon Yong who played a leading role became an instructor in Mokwon University and moved to Daejeon. So, there were not many events in Seoul, and also, many of the artists had to enter the army.

Kim No Am: What year was that?

Yoon Jin Sup: It was… in the early 80s, may it was 1981 or so. Later, 86 Installation and Performance Art Festival became a platform for revitalizing the performance art. I also organized Korea Association of Performance Art after graduating college in 1988, and worked as a head of the association and left it later.

Anyway, I parodied the title of Marcel Duchamp’s work, ‘Ross Celavy, why do you sneeze’, at an annual spring literary contest hosted by the Dong-A Daily News in 1990s. It was an essay expressed within the framework of post modernism with quoting phrases. In the early 90s, the East-European bloc started to collapse. What year was that?

Kim No Am: It was 1989.

Yoon Jin Sup: Was it 1989? Ah… they collapsed in that year, and later, around the group ‘Reality and Utterance’ that united after the early 80s, the artist from publically affiliated group such as ‘Durung’ and ‘Gwangjahyup’ were very active and also went slow at the same time.

And, in the early 1990s, what I remember about the period is… in the middle of 1995, the first Gwangju Biennale was held and organized. As a curator’s view, I think it is very interesting that exhibitions in 60s, 70s, and 80s were artists-centered ones. Artists made groups and planned exhibitions. There were no curators in those years.

Critics sometimes planned exhibitions when there were chances. It was because that the exhibitions were administered by the Korean Fine Art Association in 70s. It was in the middle of Korean art, and art festivals like Seoul Contemporary Art festival were dynamically led by Park Seo Bo, who was the chairman of the association and had been a vice chairman in the international department. From that point of view, the exhibitions were artist-centered during the period.

In the middle and the end of 1980s, Meta Fox and Oh Sang gil held an big exhibition called The exhibition of New Gegeneration of Objecthood around Gwanhoon art gallery. It was the situation of the age. Later, in 1990s, a department of arts was installed in Hong-ik University and started to turn out graduates.

Kim No Am: It was installed in 1987.

Yoon Jin Sup: Ah, it was installed in 98 and turn out the first graduates in 91. Since then, the graduates started to spread out in the society. Later on, the department of art history was founded in Ewha Women's University and department of aesthetics and department of art history, or history of antiquity art or something was established in Seoul National University.

With this system, when we see only Gwangju Biennale alone, it used to be a critic-centered exhibition but changed to be a curator-centered exhibition with the human resources were flowed into the field from the late 1990s and the beginning of the Noughties. So the power of critics in near the year 1985 moved to curators later.

Kim No Am: It was 1995.

Yoon Jin Sup: Uh? Right. It was in 1995 and the power started to move from here and there. As I said that before, the time when the power of critics weakened and moved to curators was in 2005. When I was working as a critic and the president of Koreant Art critics association, I held a forum called Northeast Asia art criticism forum.

At the first forum, held in Posco auditorium of art museum in 2005, the topic chosen was ‘between Art criticism and curating’. So, we discussed about the relations between them. And I found that the topic was discussed at AICA(international association of art critics) meeting held at Sao Paulo in 2007.

So, speaking as a critic, it is a very sensitive issue now. My life is, maybe you might ask me later, I made a word ‘Cricuartist’ to represent my life, which is a compound word of critic, curator, and artist. Actually, when I went to AICA Congress, in Slovakia last year, there was an AICA young award given to a young critic. When the winner gave a presentation, I saw he was rather close to an artist, and he used the word ‘Curartist’ to introduce himself.

Kim No Am: Actually, maybe last year? The director of Berlin biennial was a Polish artist.

Yoon Jin Sup: Was it? Yeah, that’s what I am saying.

Kim No Am: As far as I know he was in charge of artistic directing. And I would like to add more information on what you just said. As you mentioned about Korean Fine Art Association, actually, it was very difficult to go overseas before the 88 Olympic Games.

Yoon Jin Sup: That’s true

Kim No Am: It was the same to Artists as well, unless it was a special occasion or he/she was from a special family, since we were under control of the government, the artist had to get a permission from the Korea Fine Art Association to participate a biennale or an exhibition held in overseas.

Yoon Jin Sup: Right, we had to get a permission.

Kim No Am: Right, so the Korean Fine Art Association was powerful until 80s. However, from 90s, in line with the maturing country as a democratic society, the social condition was formed to somehow let individual artists, curators, and critics to move as they want. And, 2years before the 95 Gwangju Biennale, in 1993, the Whitney Biennale was exhibited at the National Museum of Contemporary Art by the help of Nam Jun Paik.

Yoon Jin Sup: Right.

Kim No Am: It was acutally not known to the public but actually, the Whitney Biennale, in 1993, was very impressive to Korean art experts. And, I think holding the Gwanju Biennale, 2 years after the Whitney Biennale, was because there was political, social demand in Korean society that time.

Yoon Jin Sup: That’s right.

Kim No Am: I guess it was considered to be a good event in the society. As you mentioned, in 1995 and 97, Gwangju biennale, who led the biennale ware critics and administrators. There were no curators and planners. The curators participated were professionals who invited from overseas. Considering our economic scale at that time, 20 years ago, since 20 billion won was spent, it must be equal to 100 billion now.

Yoon Jin Sup: Right, it was huge money, because it was 20 years ago.

Kim No Am: It surprises foreigners as well. They even wonder if there was culture of art in Korea at that time, so it is hard to believe we held an international biennale and spent that much money on it. The situations in near countries were that public biennales were disappearing in Japan, and since China was not opened, they couldn’t even think about those activities.

However Korea held Gwangju biennale in the situation, I think it was a sensational event. So, I think, even though Gwnagju biennale in 1995 and 97 had shown several demerits, it became a catalyst for development of Korean contemporary art’s.

Therefore, I think the situation before and after 1995, you mentioned, is very important. We heard from you about 70s and 80s. We can say it was your preliminery action era as an artist, and preparation era as a critic for you. Then, at the end of 80s, when you were in your mid 30s, and from 90s to 2000, for 10 years, when you were in your mid 30s and 40s, you worked actively.

Of course you are actively working now, but you are a person who did active work during the period of our contemporary art was growing with Gwangju Biennale, Seoul International Media Art Biennale, Busan Biennale, you worked. So, in 90s, your work as an artist was relatively…

Yoon Jin Sup: Almost nothing

Kim No Am: I see… uh… then about the period, the 10 years you experienced, could you please tell us, how it influenced to your artistic work. You have been working on your art works more recently, and I think they must have been influenced by the activities you experienced as a critic and a curator. What do you think?

Yoon Jin Sup: So, in 90s, I was 41 when Gwangju Biennale was held, and I was 50 when I directed Media City Seoul in 2004. Generally, I was working as a critic and a director at the same time, because I joined a company, Hyundai art gallery, which used to be Hyundai art museum and changed the name, due to the Museum act. I was 38 that time, and was in charge of managing the branches at the Korean trade center and Apgujeang. There was Busan branch as well but I did not manage it. So, I directed exhibitions in two galleries, I could direct exhibitions in good conditions there.

Kim No Am: For your information, before and afther the year 1995, not only Gwangju Biennale, the number of private art galleries increased during the time, although many of them had to close when we went under the control of the IMF in 1998. Anyway, you worked at the gallery at Hyungdai department store, and it became a platform for you to work as a director.

Yoon Jin Sup: Hyundai Art Museum, Hyundai Art Gallery…

Kim No Am: Ah, the Hyundai Art Museum…

Yoon Jin Sup: It played a big role for my career.

Kim No Am: It supported you with important visible resources.

Yoon Jin Sup: That’s true, because it was run by a major company, I was given directing expenses at the beginning, which means the conditions were good. So, from the beginning I planned two exhibitions as a series. Since the gallery at Apgujeong was small, I thought a series of shedding new light on figurative art fits there. Because abstract art and installation art were booming too much, I thought we should ask what the true meaning of figurative art is.

So, I categorized the figurative paintings into five: nature painting, figure painting, Satire painting, interior painting, and so on, and made a book with them. There were also theorists’ articles on the book. Ah, there is surrealism, called interpretation of dreams. So I made five categories. And, the gallery in the Trade center has relatively high ceiling and goo exhibition space. Experimental art works fit there.

The topic of the exhibition was creation and citation. There were parodies like parodies of famous paintings, approprieate works. There were supposed to be seen as a part of post modernism. I wanted to continue the series with the title of issues of contemporary art but I had to give up after the first exhibition due to the budget. However, now I think it is a precedent of what dealt with the issue of citation. You can see it at ‘neolook.com’

Kim No Am: There were big changes in Korean contemporary art through 1999, 2000, 2001, and 2002 Korea-Japan world cup, close to the new millennium. During the period, beyond the artists’ activities, there were giant events that arts policy and the government intervened. As a director, or as a critic who worked during the period, what problems do you think there were?

Yoon Jin Sup: Speaking of milliennium, I planned a millennium Nanjang Performance show, It was planned to be held from 10 P.M. December 31st, 1999 to 4 A.M. January 1st, 2000, at an experimental space, the Theater zero, in front of the Hongik University. I invited about 30 performance artists from all over the country. But, the budget was zero, I started it with nothing. I designed it with a computer by myself, and sent out notice, so around 30 artists including Lee Seung Taek, Sung Neung Kyung, gathered. It was a kind of DaDa style guerrilla show.

Um… there were many of new millennium events held by governments all over the world. For example, at Champs-Elysees avenue in Paris, near the Thames and under Big Ben in London, England, there were events. Korea as well, the government spent 1.4 billion won of the budget and held a big event at Gwanghuamun, with ringing the big bell and making a big clock… I thought they were too monotonous. Singers come and sing, enjoy the atmosphere of the festival, rather than that, I wanted to see the new millennium event as a Nanjang.

So I started it without any budget on purpose, defiantly, there were no one to give us money anyway. The artists voluntarily gathered from all over the country. For example, an artist named Kim Seok Hwan, wore a black durumagi (traditional Korean overcoat) and he had long hair. He put a steam sterilizer in a coffin and carried it on his shoulder. He went around the Suwon fotress and came to the event place by Titan truck. Then, he burned out the coffin in front of the Theater zero as a defiant expression.

It was…I see… uh… the basis of my life is, as I told you about avant-garde, I think the radical spirits is needed in this society like salt. It plays an important role of preventing the society not to rot, like preservatives. I think it is a role of art, especially avant-garde works, and experimental works. So, you should see my career in connection with the idea.

Hence, I directed the new millennium show like that, as a director. In 2000s, as you mentioned, there was 2002 world cup. I was in charge of the flag art festival as an artistic director. There is the ‘Association of 21st century young artists’ , Kim Hae Gon was the head of the association and worked very enthusiastically. So, it was…

Kim No Am: The group of 300 young artists.

Yoon Jin Sup: That’s right. It was an official cultural event, I mean the Korea-Japan world cup official cultural event, the flag art festival. So at the world cup park in Sangam, we invited artists from 34 or 32 countries who attended the world cup. It was a huge scale of flag art festival with about 500 members participated. We were so dedicated and voluntarily worked for the festival.

Kim No Am: So…uh… in the mid 2000, actually it is passed and it is not a topic now. I uh… from the mid 90s, um… actually I met you in the late 80s for the first time, but uh...when I started to keep in touch with you from the middle of 90s. And lately, as I was interested in your recent artistic works and your activities in the past, this project is started…

Of course, you explained us about your works, but I think the title of your exhibitions, the way you direct the exhibition, and the way you create art works are very unique. And when we see the exhibitions, it seems like you are talking to the visitors. I think it is also a unique style of your own. Please tell us about it.

Yoon Jin Sup: While I was working as a critic and exhibition director, I was invited to the Korean experimental art festival by Kim Gi Back. And, there was a party for Oh Gwang Su’s 70 years anniversary at Joseon hotel, and I went to Insa-dong to arrange closing the party, but the time overlapped with the experimental art festival, I couldn’t make it. So when Mr. Kim was on the stage, I talked to him on the phone and he delivered it to the audience and Sun Neung Kyung also took part in. So, the performance boosted the festival atmosphere.

So, I can say the performances officially restarted. And then, in 2009, I curated an international performance festival, named ceramic fashion, at 2009 The World Ceramic Biennale Korea, as an artistic director. From that event, I started performances with a stage name called Wangzie. I wore a mask and dragged a long stick to the stage, and gave a performance titled ‘The sound of space’. Since then I used my name as Wangzie. The important thing is that since I started to use Facebook from 2009, I started to use various stage names.

Such as Vindle Bindle Yoon, Pajama jun, I used the name Pajama jun when I was painting. So you should see it carefully to figure out the work is mine. I think it is a kind of unique cultural style, which exists in Oriental culture, not in Western. Chusa Kim Jeong Hee used 334 pen manes for his life time.

However, Leonardo da Vinci in Western, had only one name, even though he was very famous. The one who had a pen name was Marcel Duchamp, whose pen name was Rros Celavy. I think the fact that Oriental classical scholars used pen names is… in the Oriental culture, people used their name until they become 19, and after that, they could use their pen names freely.

Another person could name the other, and they could name themselves. I think it is very avant-garde in the form. I was a traditional culture but there was an element of avant-garde, because so-called people’s identity is hard find when they think deeply. After finding one, you find another one later. So it was a process of pursuing it, I mean making a pen name is. I used those names on Facebook and wrote two thesis through the experience. I saw Facebook itself as a performance and a place of performance…

Yoon Jin Sup: Because it is the most famous in the social networking market. I used it. I actually tried some performances including the relay performance that Facebook friends continue a story with their own writing. Maybe you saw some messages I sent about communication, nature, and so on. I used it as a medium, and the works on the exhibition is made with recycling stuff.

Like what I got it for present or picked in the street. Even a paint here is what I was given from a company, Alpha Chemistry, at the Korean Fine Art Association branch manager’s meeting. Every year they gave us a paint and I collected them. So, everything is recycled. I like it, because I don’t think I am a professional painter.

I just paint as a hobby like classical scholars long time ago drew the Four Gracious Plants and wrote poems. I just deliver my stories by using existing ones. There are my stories on my works, like the memory with my cousin, and her life. Also, like the one I accidently picked up in the street… uh… what should I say… in the fabric scroll…

Kim No Am: Ah, that’s an objet.

Yoon Jin Sup: Right, that’s an objet. I picked up those things by chance. It is 70% of luck and 30% of skill, or a dynamite of a life. Someone who is good at Go-stop game told me that even though you are very good at Go-stop, the factors of victory are 70% of luck and 30% of skill. I definitely agree with it. Right, a life is, in some ways, 70% of life depends on luck. Abilities are… if you have it, that is good, but there are so many people who couldn’t show it and disappeared.

In our lives, we are holding a dynamite that we never know when it is going to explore. So such things are… if you see the title of the performance this time, it’s freedom, ah… no, Art and Capital. The title is Art and Capital. So I brought two Bupoys(floating Balls) from Jeju beach.

Kim No Am: You did the opening performance with them.

Yoon Jin Sup: Yes, I did. I wrote ‘Art Bomb’ on one Bupyo, and write ‘Capital Bomb’ on the other. Then, pull them up with a pulley. In that performance, my perspective was intervened. And in the performances that I was related, I used the materials I kept from other performance like this time. So, as I wrote in the artist’s note, I don’t think exhibitions should be fixed and protected not to be touched by viewers. It looks like worship, and I don’t think it should be like that.

Kim No Am: It looks like a funeral.

Yoon Jin Sup: Right, it shouldn’t be like a funeral hall. I see the existing exhibitions as a funeral hall. They should be alive.

Kim No Am: I wonder how the exhibitions you direct, the various forms of your art works, issues of art and capital which was mentioned at the opening performance and language game will change through your artistic work.

Yoon Jin Sup: Uh… as an artist, when an idea pops up, how to express it is… I mean, if you go to a market or a department store, things are endlessly sold out and come in. They circulate, People come and go. It is alive. It is lifelike. Go see the Noryangjin fish market. You will find how active they are.

But stratigically, art museums are a kind of holy place. So it is covered with aura and related to the capital system. They jumped on the capital system and played a game that keeps raising the price of the art works. I feel sorry for the situation that the nature of art was lost and cannot be recovered. I think the thing that can solve the problem is avant-garde. That’s my point, and to deny the systems, to make exhibitions to be alive, as I wrote this time, we should slap its face, and give it a CPR. So, we should make it not to lose its spirit.

Kim No Am: Actually, if an art work does not have a fixed style, it is hard to be traded.

Yoon Jin Sup: That’s true, so that’s why I keep changing my pen name. It was Wangzie and when it was about to be famous I changed it to Han Q, because there is a royalty of a name. In the market system, it becomes a brand, when a royalty of the name is formed the price of the work increases. Isn’t it true? The way to prevent that happens is continuously been a rookie. That’s why I keep change my name.

Kim No Am: About the language game that you were interested in from your early 20s, I think you thought about it deeply while working as a critic and curator. I think it is related to that you change your names like playing a game. Lastly, could you please tell us how you see the future of performance art in Korea, of course, conceptual art must be in it. How do you expect and what do you think we should do?

Yoon Jin Sup: I recently published books related to performance art, tittled A Story of Performance Art, and Performance Art : It’s Theory and Field. I insisted in that book that performance artists are misunderstanding something. I mean, performances are not crazy actions, they are indeed expending the territory of art, from an experimental view or changing concepts. Anyway they are in the situation to lead art at avant-garde standpoint, but I feel sorry it is not being done. This time I, Han Q did an opening trio performance with Lee Geun Yong and Sung Neung Kyung.

That was very variety and free. We expressed off-the-wall ideas and changed the flow of the situation. So I mean, the performances such as International University in Imagination(I.U.I) and Broken Shop on Facebook have stories. I think how to lead them and how to make stories are very important. So, I think as a writer, as a curator, and as an artist, how to create works to challenge to the concept of art or revolution will be a topic.

Kim No Am: So, you mean they should try more?

Yoon Jin Sup: Yes, they should keep pursuing new performances.

Kim No Am: Art is always facing risks but, what do you think? Performance art in Korea is always at risk, right?

Yoon Jin Sup: That’s true. Many artists are working hard but, there are some misunderstandings and confusions, so I think it is regrettable.

Kim No Am: Um… Thank you for your time telling us about your stories. I think your activities will have an impact on your fellow and junior artists. I wish you good health. Thank you.

Yoon Jin Sup: Thank you.

Credits

Interviewer: Kim No-Am

Camera, lighting & sound: Francois Saikaly

Video editing: Francois Saikaly

Transcription & translation: Kim Stacey

Technical & assembly: Dr. Bob Jansen