Walkthrough Ron's work space.

Paul McGillick: So, you were born in 1941, Ron. Can you give me a little bit of background about your family and where you grew up?

Ron Robertson-Swann: Family backgrounds a little bit of a mystery, and I promised myself that I'd find out because family stories and myths can get out of hand and be exaggerated and a bit untruthful occasionally. Um, but, uh, and it is mixed, and that era, people didn't talk to children. Children were seen and not heard so you know, anything serious that happened in the household was you know, I wasn't allowed to be there.

Ron Robertson-Swann: So, um, and that's, I think that's made me intensely curious for the rest of my life. Um, but I grew up in Bellevue Hill, which is a kind of a nice neighborhood. Um, and, uh, almost my backyard was Cooper Park, uh, which was great for a child, um, and I loved that, but then I found out connections with that, Cooper Park and Picasso.

Ron Robertson-Swann: The-, that's a long story. We don't have enough time for all of this. Um, and, uh, and the other thing was Redleaf Pool and Bondi Beach. Uh, I think that's a really amazing background to grow up with. Um, and I lo-, I love the sea and I'm, uh, and swimming and surfing and, and I still do.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Uh, I, and one of the high points of my childhood was being the junior captain of the Redleaf pool swingi-, swimming club. Uh,and I would swim with Murray Rose, um, which completely destroyed any ambition I had to be a swimmer, but that vanished very quickly, has this little torpedo that passed me constantly.

Ron Robertson-Swann: So, um, I had, um, have, but I understand to be a really nice childhood. Um, my family works at it-, I think probably a bit eccentric, um, my mother certainly and my father was described by a shrink as an absentee father. So, when I was born, uh, he was at war, um, and, but in the Air Force, so he did visit occasionally. Um, and then after that, he was at sea.

Ron Robertson-Swann: So, um, I didn't see a great deal of him. Uh, what else? Um, I wa-, there was no, the only thing was there was not a strong intellectual background. There was certainly books in the house but not a great library. Um, and, uh, and there were works, uh, that...In my parents' bedroom, there were Norman Lindsay's and that probably disturbed the rest of my development as an individual, um, 'cause having intimate relations for the first time, I was deeply disappointed that pirates and satyrs and things didn't appear at the same time.

Ron Robertson-Swann: So, um, but, I da-, I don't think I was really encouraged to, to do anything much, uh, and had a fairly lonely childhood in a way because I seemed to be a bit reclusive as a child though, you know, I was happy to be the captain of this and play that and whatever, but left to my own devices, I was very happy to do that.

Paul McGillick: So, you studied at the National Art School in Sydney between 1957 and 1959. So what led you to go to the National Art School? How did your interest in art, uh, begin?

Ron Robertson-Swann: Uh, at certain point in my adolescence I wondered what the hell life was about. I wondered what all these people did and all the people around me didn't do anything that I thought worthwhile dedicating your life to, and uncles, and, and my father, and I don't, people I knew in the neighborhood.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Um, they went to work when it clearly work didn't, wasn't the inspiring part of their life, um, you know, and I suppose their joy was the weekend or something, and I found that very strange, and I was looking to find something, to dedicate my life to.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Um, you know, I have one dimented point in my life. I thought the church, you know, 'cause that's the only place where I saw people doing something other, and my discovery of art in a way was that it was other. It was different from everything else, you know. I thought it didn't matter what business people did, it's business. It's kind of the same. So, none of that had any attraction for me at all. Uh, and I think I, I was, I, I went to Art School. I did a night course.

Ron Robertson-Swann: I was a trainee executive at George Patterson's advertising. Um, and there was Dia-, Peter Wright, uh, and I were both there, being a trainee executive, just meant you were a messenger boy in a gray flannel suit actually. But, um, the, uh, and we did a night course and Lyndon Dadswell was the teacher.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Um, one there was a nude model, um, and, and he was a great teacher. He was a truly inspiring teacher, and, and I gave up everything and became a full-time student. I found something. All of a sudden, I found something.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Admittedly, I've fi-, fiddled with art as a kid, but you know, uh, you know Peter Powditch and I did a big mural. We thought it was a big mural. It was probably an A2 piece of paper, um, uh, you know, of a circus. And, um, so, and, and we used to go walk out into the countryside and pick up bones, dried bones, and, and put them together in some way. I mean, but I don't wanna make any claims for that because I just hear so many artists that wanted to declare their genius from the age of three or something, and which I think is a bit phony, you know.

Paul McGillick: So, um, what did you study when you went to Art School?

Ron Robertson-Swann: Just sculptures just yet. Yup. He got permission to do a, a special course, which was called an experimental course. There was no certification for it, but he got permission from TAFE to do it, and so, um, 'cause he'd won a scholarship to America, and he'd seen a lot of modernism and, and the sculptor George Rickey.

Ron Robertson-Swann: He became friendly with the American sculptor and he had seen some development of how people ... because otherwise it was traditional, life, modelling portraiture, drawing, um, carving, and things like that, but he made it this much more experimental with mixtures of materials and different ideas and it didn't necessarily have to be representational, and so this was just very exciting.

Paul McGillick: Did you study paintings as well in Art School?

Ron Robertson-Swann: That was an elective subject, which I did a little bit of but not study painting. I, that was an elective, but I also did an elective in ceramics and pottery under Peter Rushforth, who was another wonderful and inspiring teacher. So, um, I was just lucky.

Paul McGillick: You studied under Lyndon Dadswell. Uh, what was your experience? Looking back now, what was your experience at the National Art School?

Ron Robertson-Swann: It was, um, [sighs] it was very exciting, um, but I was an adolescent and, and, and when I think back on those things you think, "What the hell did you pick up?" You know, you know, and the other thing is there were girls there.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Um, my father was very upset when I decided to go to Art School 'cause I was actually meant to go to a military academy, which I was actually booked in, unbeknown to me. Um, and 'cause there was a bit of a military background.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Um, and, uh, you know, I did, some students have asked me, you know, "Why did you go to NAS, to the National Art School?" You know, and you know, like already I had a vision in my mind and I was gifted in some way. I said, "No, I went to the National Art School to expose myself to moral danger," and, um, that's because it was a finishing school for a lot of Eastern Suburbs, young women that couldn't afford to go to Switzerland, you know, and I thought about it. So, it was blissful on two levels.

Paul McGillick: Well you went off to London, uh, and you studied at St. Martins. First of all though, can you tell me what motivated you to leave Australia and, and go to London?

Ron Robertson-Swann: Um, I'm somebody who doesn't really have objectives. Uh, I have no idea about the future and I've very rarely planned anything. Um, but clearly what was in the back of one's mind at that time was that you had to finish your education in England. It became America very soon after that, but, um, that was just at the back of your mind.

Ron Robertson-Swann: And another thing even further back in your mind was you going home. I grew up a generation where, you know, En-, England was home or at least Scotland, my side of the family. Um, so, but that was very...Because I thought I was a young intellectual, so it was, I was shocked when I realized that that was in the background.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Um, and, uh, and my girlfriend at the time, uh, was a little bit embarrassed going out with me 'cause I was 17 and she was five years older, and she was on television and, um, doing things and, um, and I was a kid. Um...

Paul McGillick: This was in London?

Ron Robertson-Swann: No, this was here in Sydney. So, she decided the best thing for her to do was to go to London, to come to Europe, and I got on the same boat because I thought I was on a good thing. So, so a lot of things in my life were quite arbitrary and there was, no vision, no planning. If I, if I'm smart, at least I think I have the intuition to grab, hold of things as they pass me by that I think are fruitful and exciting.

Paul McGillick: Well, you studied at St. Martin's School of Art in, in London. You studied down there, Anthony Caro and Philip King. Were you already working in abstraction yourself at, at that time?

Ron Robertson-Swann: Yes, I'd started, I had s-, I had started to make some welded steel sculptures in Sydney, um, because it started off with the project that Dadswell had set that involved welding something up, and, and in my spare time, I came across a book on Julio González and, um, and started to be influenced by it that.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Uh, I had, I was so young and naïve. I had no idea how significant Julio González was to, to the development of modern sculpture. I just saw a book. I thought this is terribly exciting and I started making works influenced by that. Um, so, uh, then I found out he made Picasso. He's part of the development of modern sculpture through Picasso and collage, and, the, the, but I stepped into that. I didn't know that when I was doing it. So, that was naive and mistaken.

Paul McGillick: And Caro and King, were they influential on your development?

Ron Robertson-Swann: Yeah, I mean they were very good teachers. Um, but what sort of constantly pained me when I came home was when I was working there as a postgraduate, I had my own studio space and, and, and I made a series of works, uh, that would've had five or seven pieces in it, uh, that were abstract, steel-welded sculptures. And Caro, had probably only made about eight by then.

Ron Robertson-Swann: So, we were at the very beginning of all of that, and, and Bernard Smith's idea that, you know, "You go overseas, and you pick up the latest trend, and you come back as the messenger for the new taste or vision." And but I was at the very heart of that all being developed.

Ron Robertson-Swann: And so the interactions with Caro, and King, and, and some of the other teachers, there was a very, very lively engaging thing 'cause we are kinda all working in the same direction, at the same level.

Ron Robertson-Swann: So, Caro was a very enthusiastic teacher and sometimes, I didn't, I was a bit, I was a bit embarrassed by his enthusiasm because I just thought I'm doing what I'm doing and I'm not sure it's as good as what he says but it's encouraging and it feels good.

Ron Robertson-Swann: But, he was certainly the leading. He was the driving factor in a way, but all of them were, were incredibly...It was a great moment, and that it was different from a lot of other art schools and everybody else, it's St. Martin's, St. Martin's called us eggheads.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Uh, Tim Scott was an architect had worked for Le Corbusier. Um, uh, Tony Caro read Engineering at Cambridge. Philip Ki-, King read Modern Languages at Cambridge. Bill Tucker read History at Oxford. Um, you know, uh, David Annesley was in Mensa. Um, this was an extraordinary group of people, all coming together with similar ambitions to develop and expand the experience of sculpture.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Reacting I think in some way, uh, you know, against what they called British, The Renaissance of British Sculpture, you know, from the '40s Moore ... (Lynn) Chadwick, (Reg) Butler, (Kenneth) Armitage, (Ralph) Brown. You know, um, they just found there was no way around that, but they, it was more positive than reactionary in a way because they found collage and Picasso and Gonzalez were a great inspiration. So, to, to, to be part of that was extraordinarily good luck.

Paul McGillick: Between 1963 and 1965, uh, you worked as an assistant to Henry Moore. Can you tell me how that came about and, and what it did entail, and also how did you reconcile Moore's biomorphic sculpture with your own interest in abstraction?

Ron Robertson-Swann: Um, one was my circumstances, um, and, you know, I did have some part-time teaching after I graduated, um, but it was...Oh, no, not, as a student, I'd worked in kitchens -- and God knows what else in London -- to keep alive and, um, and end up working for Henry Moore.

Ron Robertson-Swann: I was in the world of sculpture and I was earning my living one way or another through sculpture. That was profoundly exciting to me. Um, the, he, I'd already sta-, if I had an exhibition now with the works that I've done before I went to Henry Moore, they wouldn't look out of place.

Ron Robertson-Swann: So, I was confident about where I was going, but I was enormously privileged and happy to be working on his sculptures, you know, 'cause it was in the world of sculpture, um, and in the process of getting there was, is, is reasonably extraordinary. You've gotta be recommended. You've gotta have references. You've gotta send your life drawings, and normally, and then you go for an interview, and normally, there's a sort of three-month waiting period, you know, I think, to make you feel privileged or something.

Ron Robertson-Swann: And, um, uh, I was hired on the spot. I went there, respectfully, in a suit. And I had to, I had to roll my suit and stuff, like an Englishman going to the beach, um, and work that afternoon. Um, so, uh, and I think that had a lot to do with previous Australians that had worked for Henry. They all worked hard. They were all terrific guys. They all took responsibility for what they did and, um, and they were different from the English assistants. So, I think it had a lot to do with the previous people that had, Australians that had worked for Henry.

Paul McGillick: During your time in London, uh, you've already mentioned you were doing some part-time teaching, but were you also exhibiting at that time?

Ron Robertson-Swann: Yes. Yeah. Um, uh, as a student, we, we showed at exchange exhibitions with the Slade School and a few odds and ends, and there was the, uh, London Group and, and other things like that that had, that my works were accepted into. Um, and then, I can't remember the date.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Uh, I then started showing at Kasmin's ... my view which was, in my view, the leading gallery in.. and, and that's where I, that's where all the other things began to open up as well because he showed a lot of the great American painters that I seriously admired, uh, Morris Louis, Kenneth Noland, Jules Olitski, Larry Poons ... and David Smith.

Paul McGillick: There were a lot of, uh, other Australians in London at that time. Did you hang out a lot with the other Australian artists?

Ron Robertson-Swann: No, I mean, I knew them and occasionally, I did. I saw quite a lot of Michael Johnson, uh, 'cause he lived sort of walking distance, uh, from us. Um, and, uh, Brett Whiteley took me to Wheeler's once for lunch, which was Lord Clark's favorite restaurant. It was very good. I was only, I only had enough money to, eat at workers cafes by then.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Um, so, and there seemed to be, uh, a rabbit's warren of Australians' Hannover Gate or something like that. Uh, I saw Bob Klippel there and Colin Lanceley was there. And, um, uh, so occasionally, I bumped into them, but I, I, I didn't like what they were doing. Uh, I thought that the umbilical cord of Australia was still around their necks.

Ron Robertson-Swann: And they all sent works home to sell. And not many of them sh-, actually showed in London. Colin ended up doing very well on showing in London, but most of them didn't. And, um, and beside, I had my colleague, my new colleagues who were exciting and engaging, uh, who I went to school with 'cause I went to school there.

Ron Robertson-Swann: So, that put me in a different milieu, a different cycle of people. Um, and the Australians I met were not interested in what I was excited about. And Michael Johnson was the one that came closest to that, yeah.

Paul McGillick: So, you returned to Australia in 1968. What prompted the return?

Ron Robertson-Swann: I think probably homesickness. Um, I had a small child, aged three. Um, uh, going to work in the dark and coming home in the dark, uh, there wasn't a great surf break in the Serpentine. Um, and I found myself teaching my son to swim in the Serpentine, which I thought was a muddy pond. And I thought he'd never forgive me if he knew I learnt to swim at Bondi. So, um, but I think I was homesick and, and English weather was, um, uninspiring to me.

Paul McGillick: Well, of course, 1968 was the year of the great event, The Field exhibition. Uh, but you didn't exhibit sculptures, you exhibited, I think, three paintings in the exhibition. How did that come about?

Ron Robertson-Swann: 'Cause they visited me in London. And I think it was either too late or too expensive to send sculptures. And I had three relatively large pictures that we just rolled on a drum and sent them off and, you know, ended up in a package like this where sculptures would have been crated. And, so, that was beyond I might think at that moment.

Ron Robertson-Swann: And they selected three pictures, paintings, uh, and, but I, I had no idea of what that was in Australia. So, I was a friend of Ken Noland's, Jules Olitski. Um, I helped hang their paintings when they came from America. Um, and, and, so that, that was where painting was at. But when I came here, this was, and, a very different story.

Ron Robertson-Swann: And in fact, I got off the boat in Melbourne 'cause I had books and some elements of sculptures I'd made and, uh, and, so I couldn't fly with that. So, we brought all the stuff back by boat. And the boat came Perth, Melbourne.

Ron Robertson-Swann: And I got off the boat in Melbourne, caught a taxi into the National Gallery of Victoria to check that the paintings had been, um, stretched properly, and then went back to the boat and then came home to Sydney. I don't think I even went to the opening of that show.

Ron Robertson-Swann: So, um, so, I mean, that's the, that was the sort of alienation I felt 'cause I, I didn't, um, that was such a hullabaloo about that show at the time, you know, and I showed with Rudi (Komon), you know.

Ron Robertson-Swann: And, and everyone even in Rudi's gallery even in front of me was saying, "This is terrible. This isn't, you know, what it should be, you know, (Arthur) Boyd and, and Len French and, you know, should, you know. So, opening the new gallery with that show, you know, caused such a fuss and I had, I thought, "Where the fuck have I come home to?" 'Cause that sort of was average to me and, and it wasn't a great event.

Paul McGillick: Now, over many years, you combine teaching with your own practice as a painter and, and as a sculptor. You were head of the sculpture department of the National Art School. You were head of the sculpture department at the School of Art in Canberra. How did you reconcile teaching with doing your own work?

Ron Robertson-Swann: Um, it took up time, and that's a problem. But, uh, but it also kept me alive and gave me the money to keep making it 'cause making sculpture is a little bit expensive. Um, but there were compromises, but there was also, I, I like teaching. And I think I'm a reasonable teacher.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Um, but also there's, there's a learning process in your teaching too. So, students would be asking me some really significant, penetrating questions about art, and why I did it, and why they should do it. So, that, that gave me a moment to reflect seriously on those questions, which up to that point, to some extent, I just took it for granted.

Ron Robertson-Swann: That's, that's what I did, but then I had to be explicit about that. And, and having to be explicit and clear meant that, uh, that I understood it better myself too. So, there was, there was always something positive. The price was always slightly too high to pay, but I never stopped working on my own things. I mean, there were gaps and what have you, but never stopped working.

Paul McGillick: Uh, let's go back to abstraction, uh, because you have always been a committed abstractionist. Can you tell me a little bit about your own understanding of abstraction? What, what's the imperative behind abstraction?

Ron Robertson-Swann: Jesus, this is one of the questions some students ask me. Um, I, I suppose, in my maturity, I don't see ... it's just art. And, so I, I see, you know, in (Nicolas) Poussin, relationships of color and shape moving across a canvas, which for me, in a great abstract painting, they kind of have the same qualities. And good art is good art, and it doesn't matter whether it's figurative, abstract, landscape, still life.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Um, and, and this is, this is what I first fell in love with, with abstraction. Um, and so, I never lost that love. And I'm not sure how more sensibly you can explain things like that. Um, I still find it the most exciting. Um, uh, and, and, and I now feel a lot freer too because nobody gives a shit to someone who's completely liberated.

Ron Robertson-Swann: And I sometimes make figurative sculptures, you know, with the same mode, as it were, of constructivism. You know, and don't care. When I was younger, you know, there was a zealot sort of forging ahead with abstraction and making it more abstract or more whatever. And, and now I just, uh, whatever impulse gets me, I think I'm lucky to keep at it. Um...

Paul McGillick: Because in, in the period in which you, uh, grew up and trained and launched your career, uh, as I recall, was often a sense of as either-or. I mean, it was either figurative or was abstraction. I guess, now, though, we've surely moved beyond that.

Ron Robertson-Swann: I would hope so, but I doubt it. I remember Brett at a party at Sandra McGrath, picking up a beautiful shell and saying, "And you've given up on nature." And in this shell was this perfect spiral. It was exquisite. And I said, "No, geometry underlies nature." You know, the moment you'd look at any magnification, you see geometry. You know, geometry informs nature.

Ron Robertson-Swann: So, and, I, I, those distinctions, you know, when, when someone's forging ahead with something new, they tend to be over precious about it. But in fact, they all partake of each other. And the only important thing is goodness, and recognizing goodness in whatever mode that is, really.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Um, I think, some of my abstract pictures are sometimes, uh, certainly have a very strong, uh, landscape feel to them. You know, but I'm also getting a bit wearied by, you know, the "landscape is everything in Australia." And, and, you know, if you have to write, an artist statement's got to include the landscape 'cause that's probably something special about Australia. I mean, I know in terms of the landscape, it's special, but not necessarily in terms of art.

Paul McGillick: Are there any residual figurative elements in your work, would you say?

Ron Robertson-Swann: They're not so much residual. I, I imagine they probably are as well, but I don't see them so much as residual. I just see them as, uh, being excited with a new means of doing them. And constructivism was a new means of being able to do something figurative in a fresh way, so you had to look at it freshly again.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Um, and that's, and when something begins to happen in the studio, I feel enormously pleased and excited, and I just follow it without saying you can't do that, or you mustn't do this, or it must be like that. There's no ideology as it were, you know, and you, you follow your intuitions. And the work sometimes tell you what to do, if you're listening to them closely enough. Yeah.

Paul McGillick: All right. Can we now talk just a little bit about the process? I mean, can you tell me a little bit about how a work is developed? What, what's the beginning? Where's the beginning? And do you work, for example, with drawings or do you work with materials?

Ron Robertson-Swann: That's seriously hard to do and most people would never got that right because, I think, the creative process is still a mystery to everybody and that's part of what makes it wonderful as well. You know, I, you, you have a painter and, uh, statisticians and philosophers trying to work out all that stuff and they've never been able to do that satisfactorily, I don't think.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Um, uh, but one you're working in the milieu, so you're working in a certain convention. You know, so that's a given fact. And then may be you wake up with an idea, but sometimes the work starts going in another direction and you've gotta have the wit to sacrifice the idea and follow where the work's going, you know.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Sometimes you've gotta follow through the idea. Sometimes you've gotta sacrifice the idea. Um, and it's, it's, the, the work sometimes tells you what to do. Um, you're working confidently in an area where the stuff is around you all the time, so it's not a total mystery that certain things might come together.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Um, but by and large, I don't know how to explain it, frankly. I do know how to explain it through the result sometimes. So, if I do a mediocre work, I can identify with it. I can put my arm around it and say, "That's Ron's work." If I do a really good work, I wonder where the hell that came from. I do just, and it sometimes surprises me. And, and I have to come to terms with my own work when it's good. So, that's the best way for me to explain something of the creative process is the result, not necessarily the process.

Paul McGillick: Do you, kind of, at the beginning, do you work with sketches or drawings or do you play with materials?

Ron Robertson-Swann: Always, for sculpture, I play with stuff, with materials. Uh, I have drawn sculptures, um, but drawing is a particular medium where it's the, the tension in the drawing is in, in relation to the flatness of the page you're drawing on, and sculpture's fully three-dimensional.

Ron Robertson-Swann: So, I've done terrific drawings. I thought I'd make a fabulous sculpture, and then I start making and it loses all of its tension. So, no, I, I play around with bits of cardboard, and balsa wood, and the inside of a toilet roll, and God knows what else strips that I can find to get things going.

Ron Robertson-Swann: And someti-, and then just translate those into steel. But other times, I just work directly with steel. You could see out the back, there's about 20 tons of steel out there in the yard. And I go and find bits that fit or that give me an idea, and sometimes it's accidental. Sometimes I pick up a load of steel, dump it off my truck and then I find two bits just fall together that do something, "Shit. OK," and that's the beginning.

Paul McGillick: Now, uh, looking back over, uh, a long career, can you see any changes that have taken place in your work over that time and have there been changes, for example, in your own attitudes or your own preoccupations?

Ron Robertson-Swann: Just a lot more relaxed. Uh, it would be a, a bit more comfort. It's not exactly confidence, it's, it probably is in the end, but it's really, "I don't give a shit." One would always worry as a younger artist, "Is this any good? Should I be doing this?" But, and I think ... I'm doing, I'm following my intuitions, I'm following my judgments, and I'm confident enough to be able to do that. And, and if that's not right, then I don't care. I no longer care. I care more what I think than what people think of me. That's the difference. That's maturity I hope. That's maturity.

Paul McGillick: It's interesting, isn't it? Because a lot of people, when they look at abstraction, they see it as a very considered and calculated thing. But you've been telling me that you are fundamentally a very intuitive artist.

Ron Robertson-Swann: I, I don't think you can be anything else, frankly. Um, you know, and, and, there, there was a, there was a lesson I learnt with, with Americans as well. The, the English, not necessarily St Martins school, but the English, in general, made considered masterpieces. You know, and they worked on drawings and they worked on developing it and it had to be right. Americans, by comparison, just did stuff and saw what came out at the other end. They didn't, you know, I think you co-, you run the risk of constipating things if you do too much of a pre-determined masterpiece.

Ron Robertson-Swann: Uh, certainly, in, in my time, I've seen the results of that be very negative in comparison to what I call the "American system" where you just let go and see what comes out the other. Might be rubbish, but it might be something of a complete surprise. And if it's rubbish, you throw it away.

Paul McGillick: Well, Ron, thank you very much for your time.

Ron Robertson-Swann: No, it's my pleasure. Nice to catch up with you again, as well. So, yea

Interviewer: Paul McGillick

Camera, lighting and sound: Cameron Glendinning

Video editing: Bob Jansen

Technical & assembly: Bob Jansen