Kim Ku Lim: Here is my second studio. Here...
Yoon Jin Sup: Wow, These are awesome. There are objet d'arts as and...
Kim Ku Lim: You can see small art works in the showcase. There is a bookshape art work as well.
Yoon Jin Sup: There are some works made in 2000's.
Kim Ku Lim: Right, some of them were created before then.
Yoon Jin Sup: You've been working on objet d'arts from long time ago, right?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes.
Yoon Jin Sup: Wow, A lot of them are objet d'art.
Kim Ku Lim: These are materials I bought for my art work, and these are junk I collected from streets. You don't know what you will need while working on art.
Yoon Jin Sup: It's December 1st, 2014 and I am art critic Yoon Jin Sup. I am here at artist Kim Ku Lim's house to interview him. Hello Mr. Kim.
Kim Ku Lim: Hello.
Yoon Jin Sup: Mr. Kim, you are very popular as the best avant-garde artist in Korea, and especially, you are earning a very good reputation about your exhibition at Tate Modern, these days. When you look back on your life as an artist, when do you think it was the happiest time or best days of yours?
Kim Ku Lim: I have never thought that either I was having my best days or happiest time. I have just been working on my art works very hard for my whole life.
Yoon Jin Sup: Right. So, you mean you can't say when your prime was, but you have focused on your art works for your life time, right?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, it's because my art works have changed with the society all the time. To create art works reflect the times, you must be well aware of the society at the time.
Yoon Jin Sup: So, you mean, you are almost 80 now, but you have studied and longed for new art and continuously worked to satisfy the needs of social needs so far?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes. And, I did not live just in Korea but also lived in Japan, Paris where I stayed for short time, New York, and Los Angeles in the States as well. While moving here to there my works and thoughts also changed many times, so times and places have well reflected in my art works.
Yoon Jin Sup: You are often described with the word "the first". For example, you tried Mail art for the first time in Korea. What else can I say?
Kim Ku Lim: Well, I tried many things for the first time including electronic art. Even though I couldn't even enter Korea, I started visual art for the first time, and another person succeeded it as his own later. I tried many things here and there, so there is no one thing I have stuck at until now.
Like I said before, art works including the actions and methods of making them change as the times change. So, even though I was influenced by Western-style paintings, my works were not limited to paintings. I have built my career in a big range of fields like printmaking, installation art, performance art and music as well.
Yoon Jin Sup: The time between 1969 and 1970 was very meaningful to not only yourself but also to Korean artists. Korean art history records that there were many interesting happenings during the time. Including your art works like Mail art, Experimental films, and happenings, you showed many activities as an artistic leader like organizing the Fourth Group. Please tell us more about the time.
Kim Ku Lim: The reason why I organized the Fourth Group was because I felt limits when I tried to use new materials on my art works. There were no problems if I just focused on paintings, but when I tried to work on new works using machines, lights or other things, I realized that I couldn't do it by myself. So, I started so-called collaboration that I help others and get help from them. I thought that the time when we can create art works by helping each other will come in the future. So I organized the Fourth Group and our members did street performances many times.
One of the street performances we did was that we put instructions and some powder which is harmless to humans in envelopes, and made the audience to do the performance themselves, instead of showing something in front of them. While we were handing out the envelopes to people in Seoul College of Liberal Arts and Sciences, we experienced many happenings including being kicked out and insulted by the students of the college.
Yoon jin Sup: I heard that members of the Fourth Group were gathered from many different areas like fashion, movies, and theater. Could you please tell us more about what kind of people were in the group, how you were organized and its announcement?
Kim Ku Lim: There were various people from various levels and fields, but leading members were painters. Including Jeong Chan Seung who has passed away, Bang Tae Su who was the head of a theater company called Ejeotto which was famous for mime, and fashion designer Shon Il Kwang, there were many members I worked with. While I was working in the group, I also directed plays in a theater group called situation. I directed an alternative theater for the first time in Korea and it caused a sensation as it was run on newpapers.
Long story short, I dramatized
Yoon Jin Sup: Ah, you got an award for stage art.
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, I got one in that field and also received one as a director once. There are so many activities that I have done. I also directed an international contemporary music festival in Myeong-dong Theater as well.
Yoon Jin Sup: Let's talk about the social and political circumstances. It was when the Third Republic was being continued and the forceful government was in power. In that circumstances you named a position called 'Tongryeon' which has omitted 'Dae' from 'Daetongryeong' (i.e. president). How did you get the idea? Please tell us about it and introduce us intangible ideas as well.
Kim Ku Lim: Normally the word 'Association' was used for many other group like 'Association of something'. However, I didn't want to use the term 'Association' because we were gathered from various fields. So I used 'Jipdan' (i.e.group) as a part of our group name. One more reason I used 'Jipdan' was that I intended to expand the group as a Nationwide scale.
We had a head office in Seoul and allowed people to join us, whoever wanted to participate, regardless where they were from or from what school they graduated. Since we intended to expand the group nationwide, the word 'Tong ryeong' which is missing 'Dae' from 'Daetongryeong' (i.e.President)' and 'Chongryeong' were taken to indicate the chairman and vice-chairman of the group.
Yoon Jin Sup: Then, the government must have disliked you and treated you like a rebel group because we were under an oppressive government. I guess you must have had difficulties that time. How was it?
Kim Ku Lim: Of course. I had difficulties. The government got a wrong idea about my activities. So I was jailed and questioned that time. Because there were lots of spies, I was suspected as a spy and had hard time. I was acquitted at the court and released, but I had harder time after that. I had restrictions in my activities and a detective tailed me everywhere.
In that situation, my family had a miserable time and even my father was taken to the Korean Central Intelligence Agency and questioned about me. While having a hard time, I thought that I shouldn't be selfish. I thought, as a head of the group, I should free the members to have their own artistic activities. So I announced a dissolution.
After announcing dissolution, I couldn't keep my artistic activities in Korea anymore. Also, there were some people who were jealous of me as well. Some said that I was doing those things to seek press publicity. So, I decided to test myself and left for Japan. I went to Japan and restarted my art works.
Yoon Jin Sup: I see. That's why you went to Japan.
Kim Ku Lim: That is why I went to Japan for the first time.
Yoon Jin Sup: So, you recited the declaration of the Fourth group at the Sorim theater, no, at a coffee shop, right? When was it? Was it in 70's then?
Kim Ku Lim: It was in 1969.
Yoon Jin Sup: Oh, it was in 1969. Please tell us more about how it was....
Kim Ku Lim: After the declaration, we started nationwide gathering in earnest.
Yoon Jin Sup: Where?
Kim Ku Lim: At Sajik park.
Yoon Jin Sup: Ah, it was at Sajik park...
Kim Ku Lim: We decided to hold a nationwide gathering on August 15th (i.e. National Liberation Day in Korea) to show that we are flushing out the culture and arts of older generation through the Han river. So, as I was marching the street, I was arrested by Police.
Yoon Jin Sup: I see... I want to hear more about the situation. Do, did you recite the declaration on August 15th?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, I did.
Yoon Jin Sup: After reciting the declaration, you put some stuff in a coffin and covered it with flowers?
Kim Ku Lim: I made the coffin to show that we are flushing out the old culture and conventions through the Han river, and will create new culture and arts.
Yoon Jin Sup: So you put some old books that represent old culture in the coffin and pinned a white flag as a symbol of monochromism.
Kim Ku Lim: Right, but I pinned the white flag as a symbol of peace and white-clad race.
Yoon Jin Sup: I see. So the group of the people marched through Gwanghwamun and the National Assembly building.
Kim Ku Lim: The coffin passed through Seoul City Hall, and the police office which used to be at the corner of Deoksugung Palace.
Yoon Jin Sup: Before that you passed the National Assembly building...
Kim Ku Lim: yes, we did.
Yoon Jin sup: And you passed the City Council of Seoul...
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, yes.
Yoon Jin Sup: Next to the city council, there was a police office at the entrance of British Council...
Kim Ku Lim: It was next to Deoksugung Palace
Yoon Jin Sup: You mean the Deoksugung stonewall walkway?
Kim Ku Lim: There was a police office next to the stonewall walkway.
Yoon Jin Sup: And you were arrested there...
Kim Ku Lim: Yes. I was arrested there, but they didn't have specific reason to arrest me. So they applied road traffic laws. After arresting me, they asked nothing about the activity but asked me if I was requested to do something by North Korea.
Yoon Jin Sup: I see. That's what happened. After that, I heard that you started Mail arts with Kim Tae Sup in 1969.
Kim Ku Lim: Yes. There are some art works I can handle by myself, but depend on what kind of work it is, some work needs two or three people. If possible, I tend to work alone, but Mail art was two-person job because it was a kind of job that stimulates another person's curiosity. So, I visited Kim Cha Sup's studio in Seodaemun and told him about the idea. When I asked him to join me, he willingly accepted it and we started working together.
Yoon Jin Sup: That's how you started working together. How did you get the idea?
Kim Ku Lim: One day I thought that how long would letters be used in human society. Maybe in the future, we wouldn't use letters anymore. Mail art started with the idea, and I checked many things to perform the idea. For example, I checked what time mailmen start delivering mail and what time mail is delivered to each house. I calculated everything before performing the project, and observed each person's reaction.
Yoon Jin Sup: There must be some interesting episodes.
Kim Ku Lim: Of course. there were lots of episodes. I will tell you some of them. 100 mails were sent to random people without sender's name. One person got one of them and opened it. There were nothing but one torn page with a fingerprint on it. He thought for long and concluded it that it might have been sent by his best friend whom he didn't get in touch with for 10 years. He guessed that it was his friend's message to end their friendship.
Some people thought there must have been some way to make the letters appear on the paper, so they flashed a light on the paper. Some people thought the letters would appear, if it got wet, so they put the mail into water. Some were terrified when they got the mail because they thought something bad will happen to them. There were many interesting episodes.
Yoon Jin Sup: So it was an interactive art. It is interesting that there were many kinds of reactions about it. You also tried electric art as well, right?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, I did.
Yoon Jin Sup: Could you please tell us more about it? When was it?
Kim Ku Lim: It was in 60s when I started sticking objects together. I started sticking machines from 1970s, no from 1960s, but later Op art came in to Korea. I stuck objects on the format of op art in 1968. I released that. I made a work with sticking half Ping-Pong balls and in the next year, while I was designing a work to exhibit in a foreign county, I got an idea of adding electricity there and started electric art since then.
Yoon Jin Sup: Then when you made it, were you working in a textile company in Daegu?
Kim Ku Lim: No, it was when I was working in a textile company in Busan.
Yoon Jin Sup: I see.
Kim Ku Lim: I worked at a textile company in Daegu when I used machine components on my art works, but I was working at another textile company in Busan when I started electric art.
Yoon Jin Sup: Then, since you worked in a textile company, it must have been easy to get machine components. How was it? Was it relevant to the job?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, it was. The machine components were unpurchasable. Also, I was in a managerial position. I was a manager at the company in Daegu, and I was a vice-president and even had a secretary at the other company in Busan. Since I had authority to manage everything there, it was easy to get the materials.
Yoon Jin Sup: Then, since when did you quit the company and became a full-time artist?
Kim Ku Lim: I don't have great educational background and I wasn't even interested in graduate good school or something. To focus on artistic work, I needed money anyway, and where I could make money was a general company. So I got a job there. I entered the company as a general employee but since I suggested many good ideas, I got promoted sooner than others.
Yoon Jin Sup: Then how were you connected with other artists in Seoul?
Kim Ku Lim: I was well connected with them. When I was in Daegu, I didn't know any of them at the beginning, but I met some art college graduates who came back to their hometown. I tried to contact them to work together. I suggested to make a club with young people only.
No one answered at the beginning, but once I started to convince them with theoretical issues, they began to be interested in my idea and joined me. That's how I joined the artists community in Daegu. But, there were conflicts between two fine art associations; Daehan Fine Art Association and I was somehow involved there. I wrote some articles on newspapers and citicized by press sometimes. So, I decided to come to Seoul.
Yoon Jin Sup: Was it around 68 or 69?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, it was 68.
Yoon Jin Sup: So, you entered the artists community in Seoul by joining the Painting 68, a group exhibition, and started mail art and land-art and organized the Fourth group...
Kim Ku Lim: From 68 to 72, when I was the most active in the field.
Yoon Jin Sup: In 1972 in Seoul...
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, during the 4 or 5 years, I did the most of the things in my career.
Yoon Jin Sup: I see. You also joined AG later. AG was a very important group in Korean contemporary art history of 70's along with ST. The members were famous for experimental and avant-garde art works. With the participation of art critics such as Kim In Hwan, Oh Gwang Su, and Lee Il, it published magazines and actively worked. I heard that you were a initial member of AG with Kim Cha Sup, Gwak Hun, and Choi Bung Hyun, and did meaningful things to form the organization. Could you please tell us about how it was?
Kim Ku Lim: At the beginning, it was founded by several members. There were more people, but some of them couldn't be a founder member or couldn't even join us at all. Another one joined and left right away. Finally Kim Cha Sup and I were left at the end. I started the the group at the beginning.
Yoon Jin sup: Kim Cha Sup, Choi Bung Hyun, and Lee Tae Hyn, members of Zero Group...
Kim Ku Lim: The head of Zero Group was Choi Bung Hyun. Gwak Hun and Kim Cha Sup were close. So there were four of us including Gwak Hun and me who agreed to found a group. However, Choi Bung Hyun was somehow related to Korea Fine Art Association and had some problem with it. So he moved to a school in the provinces and couldn't join us.
Yoon Jin Sup: So, you joined AG from the 1st exhibition in 1970s, as a founder member?
Kim Ku Lim: There were few founder members, but later, some representative artists from each group joined us, like Lee Gang So for example, is he from Shincheje Group
Yoon Jin Sup: Yes. Shincheje.
Kim Ku Lim: Ah, Lee Gwang Su from Shincheje, Lee Kun Yong from ST, like that. So the group became larger later.
Yoon Jin Sup: So, at the first exhibition, was it at the Gyeongbokgung Palace National Museum of Modern and Contemporary Art? Your painting of yourself sitting on a log in underpants (Zen), was it at the first exhibition?
Kim Ku Lim: No, it was not at AG exhibition.
Yoon Jin Sup: It was not?
Kim Ku Lim: It was at an exhibition of Korea Fine Art Association. There was Lee Seung Taek's work and Lee Kun Yong's tree work were next to mine.
Yoon Jin Sup: The exhibition was also at the National Museum of Modern and Contemporary Art, right?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes it was. However, it was not the same one as the one we call National Museum of Modern and Contemporary Art now. It was torn down.
Yoon Jin Sup: You mean the one used to be in the Gyeongbokgung Palace?
Kim Ku Lim: There were Gyeongbokgung Palace National Museum of Modern and Contemporary Art but it was removed for the reason of that it was a vestige of Japanese imperialism.
Yoon Jin Sup: I remember the exhibition hall was pretty big...
Kim Ku Lim: It was huge. Many of my works disappeared with that. Not only that, my work that winds up and ties the art gallery...
Yoon Jin Sup: Only pictures of that are left, right?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, including that one, another one was, if you enter the Art Museum, the space was square, and in the middle of that, there was a small room without a window. I was going to put my ice work in the room. It was not at Korean Fine Art Association exhibition. It was at the Korean contemporary Art exhibition hosted by the Hankook Ilbo. Since I was an invited artist, I was supposed to be able to enter there. However, despite that, my works were removed and I sued the Hankook Ilbo.
Yoon Jin Sup: Oh, you sued them?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes. Finally I dropped charges but my works were gone...
Yoon Jin Sup: I see. Then, how about the body painting work which was invited to the Tate Modern exhibition. When did you start it?
Kim Ku Lim: Maybe it was in 1969. Now it's called JTBC, but there was Tongyang Broadcasting Company just called TBC. It was called Dongyang TV and run by Joongang Ilbo. When I did performance of putting fire on grass, KBS and MBC were not interested in it, but newly opened Tongyang Broadcasting Company came to film that.
They always reported news with progressive content. So, they filmed my performance and televised it and I was on the TV and explained and talked about my work. Later, I happened to have a street fashion show for the first time. It was held in Myungdong, Gwanghwamun, and in front of Ewha Women's university.
While working on it, I became close to Korean first generation models. Then, I got an idea of having a body painting show. But, I didn't have a place to do it, and TBC suggested to me that they would offer us a room. They said they will film the process and broadcast it on TV. They also promised me to pay all fees used for the performance. I said Ok and asked the models if they were willing to do the show. All of them agreed to do it for free and we started it in the room that was offered by TBC. Some models undressed for the job and TBC filmed that, but it couldn't be aired.
Because it didn't meet the censorship criteria of the Korea Broadcasting Ethics Commission. So, scenes of wearing clothes could be on TV. Since it was a big issue among weekly magazines, all magazine journalist were forbidden to enter. However, somehow a journalist Choi Gap Sik from Weekly Woman belonged to the Hankook Ilbo sneaked in and took pictures.
He took a lot of pictures there but many of them couldn't be in the magazine because of censorship as well. So, only some pictures with the model's legs were in the magazine. There were so many good scenes but nothing of them are left and only the ones that were in the magazine are left now. So, I feel sorry for that.
Yoon Jin sup: So, you didn't hire a photographer or something?
Kim Ku Lim: No. Because I thought the broadcasting company were going to film everything...
Yoon Jin Sup: Does the tape exist now?
Kim Ku Lim: No, they are all gone, so...
Yoon Jin Sup: Have you ever checked it?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, I did. JTBC was open when I was preparing an exhibition at Seoul Museum of Art last year. So I contacted them and asked to search everything to find it, but they said everything was burned at that time.
Yoon Jin Sup: I see. When they were shutting down...
Kim Ku Lim: Yes. Lots of things are like that. Many of art works that I don't have, but broadcasting companies used to have, are gone. So, I don't have any evidence to show people. I can't say I did those performances because there is no evidence. I only talk about some of them which have at least a little of record.
For example, I can say I did street fashion show because there is a small press report with a picture. If there's no material like that, I can't say I did it. Body painting is the same. If the journalist didn't sneak in, there would have been no record of it. Then I can't say I did it.
Yoon Jin Sup: I see. Then, I think you have exceptional passion toward printmaking. You started working as an printmaking artist very early. I mean you started working on it at the very beginning when no one was interested in it. Also, in early 80's, you opened a studio for printmaking and led popularization of printmaking. Could you please tell us what kind of activities you did during the time.
Kim Ku Lim: I started it from in the middle of 60's.
Yoon Jin Sup: Oh, from middle of 60's. Then, did you start it when you were in Daegu or Busan?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes. Long time ago, there was no printmaking press in Korea. I saw them in books from overseas. So I studied about it, and decided to make one. I visited a printing shop and found a roller about to be discarded. I bought it and took it to an iron foundry. I explained them how I wanted it to be made, and I finally got a press for the first time. But it didn't work well. Later, as I happened to work in Japan, I learned printmaking in earnest.
When I came back to Korea, there was nothing about printmaking in my country. So I held printmaking exhibitions and many other series exhibitions. I used to have exhibitions with installation art works, flat art works, and printmaking art as well. When I held printmaking exhibition, people were surpirised and said how printmaking can be like them.
People knew very little about printmaking that time. For example, they didn't know the terminology about it. So, when I explained about mezzotint, printmaking and etching. People only knew about etching. People used to know only woodcut, rubber printmaking and etching in Korea.
So, I explained that this is aquatint, this is not just etching, there are three kinds of etching; hard ground etching, soft ground etching, and lift ground etching, and they are all different depending on how they are made. Then, some people who were longing for printmaking descended on me. So I taught them in my house. Later I found that there were printmaking studios overseas where people can easily learn and work on it. So I spent my own money and opened an printmaking studio.
Yoon Jin Sup: You made an printmaking studio. At that time...
Kim Ku Lim: Yes. For the first time.
Yoon Jin Sup: Of course it was the first time. No one would have thought of printmaking studio at that time.
Kim Ku Lim: No one even thought if studio...
Yoon Jin Sup: What year was that? 80...?
Kim Ku Lim: It was in 81. I opened it on November 1st in 1981.
Yoon Jin Sup: I see... You opened it and ...
Kim Ku Lim: I opened it but people were not very interested in it. So I had to close it within a year.
Yoon Jin Sup: But in my memory, in the 70's, your works at Gaegan Art magazine were already... I mean you gave samples to subscribers...
Kim Ku Lim: Yes. I used to do that.
Yoon Jin Sup: I remember that.
Kim Ku Lim: Yes. I worked on printmaking at that time and opened a studio when I felt I needed one.
Yoon Jin Sup: In 70's, while you were working on printmaking, you were very famous for copper plate. There were also installation art works and printing works that you sketched objects like time, flower, and other stuff simply and engraved. Were they helpful for your livelihood?
Kim Ku Lim: No, they were not.
Yoon Jin Sup: They were not in demand?
Kim Ku Lim : No, they weren't
Yoon Jin Sup: Even though you were very famous in 70's?
Kim Ku Lim: At that time, people knew me only as a print artist, because I was famous for it, and I popularized it. Also, I cannot mention their names but, some print artists, the first generation of print artists in Korea, were my students. The all learned from me. I even made a press machine. At the beginning, some rich people imported a press from overseas, but they didn't know how to use it. I got a phone call one day. He said he was a professor in a college and he was trying to print with a press but it didn't work. I said, how come?
I asked him how he put paper and he said he just put printing paper in the machine and tried to print. I asked him again that what he did before he put the paper in the machine. He said he just put it in there. Ah ha, I told him to soak the paper in water first, and he said "what? Why should I soak the paper in water? if I do it, won't it be ruined? " So I said " I mean soak the paper in water for 30 minutes and put it on a wet fabric and use it when it is slightly wet." Later he called me back and said that it worked very well. People didn't know that much about printing at that time.
Yoon Jin Sup: I see. Then, you worked on printmaking for a while. As I remember, you were already famous as a major artist through Ecole de Seoul, in the middle of 70's.
Kim Ku Lim: You are right.
Yoon Jin Sup: In the middle of art world...
Kim Ku Lim: Yes.
Yoon Jin Sup: Then, how come you moved to the U.S? Please tell us what happened.
Kim Ku Lim: I had some difficulties in the art world. Since I didn't enter an art college, I didn't have personal connections in this field. So I thought that was not how it should be. I must leave Korea and move to a bigger world. That's why I moved to the U.S. The reason why I chose the U.S was, I went to Paris first. I stayed there for several month, but I felt I wasn't right for there. I used to visiting the States before I went to Paris. When I went to New York again, I finally felt that there was where I wanted to stay. That's how I decided to go to New York.
Yoon Jin Sup: You went to New York first and then moved to LA, right?
Kim Ku Lim: That's right.
Yoon Jin Sup: But you stayed in LA for longer?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes. I stayed in LA longer.
Yoon Jin Sup: Until when?
Kim Ku Lim: The reason why I moved to LA was, when I was in New York. I was an emerging artist. I used to have exhibitions with global artist like Bruce Nauman. Also, I was the first Asian artist whose private exhibition was invited to the Museum of Modern Art.
Yoon Jin Sup: Modern?
Kim Ku Lim: Modern Museum.
Yoon Jin Sup: Moma?
Kim Ku Lim: It's not Moma. It's called Museum of Modern Art and located in Santa Ana, California. I was invited to have an exhibition there. When I visited there, David Hockney was having an exhibition there. The director of the museum said that a Japanese artist and I were on the final list, but I was chosen. It was three years before I had an exhibition. They normally noticed artists that much earlier because artists must prepare art works for their exhibition. I couldn't believe that happened to me and was so happy.
So, I had to work 1,000 of works, but my studio was small in New York, because I couldn't afford to rent a big one. I couldn't find a good one there, so I moved to LA again. In LA, rent for a studio was a half of it in New York. I rented a big studio in LA. It had a 7 meter high ceiling. So, I moved some of my stuff to LA 3 years ahead of my exhibition. I kept the others in my friend's house. And I worked on my works for the exhibition for three years.
Yoon Jin Sup: You started working there.
Kim Ku Lim: Yes. So I held an exhibition there. But, when I finished the exhibition, I couldn't go back to New York cause I had too much luggage in LA. So, I brought the other luggage in New York to LA and settled down there. Then later, I came back to Korea.
Yoon Jin Sup: Was in in 90's when you came back?
Kim Ku Lim: I came back in 2000
Yoon Jin Sup: You came back in 2000?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, in 2000
Yoon Jin Sup: Then what was that at DongSoong Gallery in 90's?
Kim Ku Lim: It was a different one.
Yoon Jin Sup: At the Art Center...
Kim Ku Lim: At the Art Center...
Yoon Jin Sup: I remember it was in 91 no, 92 or 93?
Kim Ku Lim: No, it was a different exhibition I held before. You mean the one held in Arts Council Korea-Performing Arts Center which is called as ARKO Performing Arts Center?
Yoon Jin Sup: Yes, the one at the ARCO Performing Arts Center. Did you just visit Korea for the exhibition while you are staying in the States?
Kim Ku Lim: It wasn't just visiting, I held it when I moved back to Korea in 2000.
Yoon Jin Sup: in 2000?
Kim Ku Lim: Before that I used to come and go, but in 2000, Kim Chan Dong was a director at the gallery.
Yoon Jin Sup: Right, director of the Arts Council Korea-Performing Arts Center.
Kim Ku Lim: So he called me when I was in the States. He said he wanted to hold an exhibition with my works, and asked me for permission. So I said "I can't discuss it over the phone so let's talk about it when I come to Korea in March." So, I came to Korea in next March and met him. I found that he actually planned a big budget for the exhibition.
And that was an real reason I moved back to Korea permanently in 2000. I remarried in the U.S while I was living there and I had kids. One was in a kindergarten and the other one was in the first year in an elementary school. But, I was very shocked while living there.
The gallery actually pushed me to get American citizenship while I was working for the exhibition and my kids were discriminated against by the school. So I was upset and didn't want my kids to be American. I didn't want to raise them there. At that time the art center asked me to hold an exhibition there and wanted to support me, so I took advantage of the opportunity and brought my family here. Actually my wife's whole family live there and she has no family in Korea, but I decided to move to Korea for my kids and started to pack from July in 2000.
Yoon Jin Sup: Then, when did you hold the exhibition?
Kim Ku Lim: In October.
Yoon Jin Sup: You had the exhibition in October and brought everything here in July...
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, I brought everything and ARKO Performing Arts Center prepared for the exhibition including handouts.
Yoon Jin Sup: So you directly moved to this house?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes I did.
Yoon Jin Sup: It was also related to the Total Museum of Contemporary Art?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, actually I moved to this house because of the Total Museum of Contemporary Art.
Yoon Jin Sup: Could you please tell us about how you were offered a graffiti exhibition from the Total Museum of Contemporary Art?
Kim Ku Lim: It was when I was visiting Korea for a while...
Yoon Jin Sup: I see. It was before you moved to Korea.
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, it was a long before that.
Yoon Jin Sup: What year was that? about 90's...?
Kim Ku Lim: I am not sure, maybe later than that...
Yoon Jin Sup: I see, in 90's anyway...
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, it was in 90's.
Yoon Jin Sup: You did it while you were visiting for a while.
Kim Ku Lim: I was going to do it in a short time but I couldn't. So I stayed for about a month here in Korea. I planned to finish it quickly but it was difficult to make it even I had one or two assistants.
Yoon Jin Sup: So until when was it opened to the general public?
Kim Ku Lim: It was opened for a long time but the Total Museum was taken over to another one. So it was totally torn down. I feel so sorry about it.
Yoon Jin Sup: I see. I heard that you wrapped up your life in the U.S and permanently came back to Korea in 2000. And I think the exhibition hosted by the ARKO Performing Arts Center was the opportunity for you. Now I wonder how you built up your reputation as an artist in Korea again.
Kim Ku Lim: Since I stayed in the States for a long time, there was no way to make money. So, I started teaching as a part-time instructor.
Yoon Jin Sup: What did you mainly teach?
Kim Ku Lim: When I just came back, I wanted to teach fine art in Hong-ik university but there was no job for me. So I started at the printmaking department. I was an instructor in the graduate school and move to here an there later, and maybe in Duksung...?
Yoon Jin Sup: Duksung Women's University?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes. There was a class for middle aged women.
Yoon Jin Sup: Ah... Lifelong Education Center...?
Kim Ku Lim: Something like that. I also taught the classes and I was also invited to a culture center by Joong-ang Ilbo.
Yoon Jin Sup: Culture Center.
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, something like that. I used to work here and there and made ends to meet.
Yoon Jin Sup: Then you must have spent less time on your art works.
Kim Ku Lim: In spite of the situation, I worked very hard on it. Even thought I couldn't be a leader of something, but did my best.
Yoon Jin Sup: So, after coming back to Korea...
Kim Ku Lim: So, after coming back to Korea, I found that there were so many pretty girls here. While I was sitting at a coffee shop and looking at those pretty girls, I started to delude myself.
Yoon Jin Sup: What did you delude your self into?
Kim Ku Lim: That was, I was surprised because I felt like pretty mannequins made in a factory were walking around.
Yoon Jin Sup: Maybe it was because of plastic surgery.
Kim Ku Lim: Later I found that there were so many plastic surgery hospitals in Gangnam area. I was shocked. So, I started to create art works related to that from 2001. They were small. I couldn't make big ones but just small ones. I made hundreds of them while staying in my house. I started make them since then.
Yoon Jin Sup: So I see your erotic art works at the Arario exhibition last time were also...
Kim Ku Lim: Right.
Yoon Jin Sup: Then, when did you start the works? Was it the time when you came back?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes it was, when I came back to Korea. Those were not saleable ones anyway. I also found that there were western faces a lot in women's magazine. It seemed that advertising was not effective with Korean models. So many of them were using pictures of western models, and women who wanted plastic surgery tended to prefer western faces. I found this world had been changed like that. So, if you see my works about plastic surgery you can see many of western people's faces.
Once I got a question from Jessica Morgan when she visited my home. She wanted to see the works about plastic surgery and I showed her about one hundred of them. She asked me why most of them were western faces. So I explained that Korean women who want to get plastic surgery bring pictures of these kind of faces to hospitals and ask doctors to change their faces like these, that's why many of my works are with faces of western people.
Yoon Jin Sup: I see. And also your works varies in form like installation comparison video, electric art, objet, and performance. You can be called as a multi player or multi artist. What do you think about it? Do you directly start action about your idea or have some time to consider it?
Kim Ku Lim: I don't think deeply. Once I get an idea, I draw it, and then, I write about the answers I expect to get from critics or other people, like "Why do did it?" or "What does this work mean?"
Yoon Jin Sup: Ah, you write about it?
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, I write it first and when it was completed I release the work. I start things right away cause I am impetuous. I tend to start working on my ideas right away when I get them even though I stay all night.
Yoon Jin Sup: I can tell you are a successful artist even though you didn't get any formal art education. I guess you experienced many difficulties while working as an artist more than fifty years. For example, Jeff Koons from the States or Damien Hirst from England were backed by enormous commercialism and had hundreds of assistants to support their works and present ideas...
but you were in a system that you had to work by yourself due to the limits and practical problems, even though you had good ideas. So, if you have any wishes for the government or future artists, what would you tell them as an artist, and what kind of wishes do you have?
Kim Ku Lim: Well, to be honest, I haven't got any help from others and I don't like it, so I haven't thought about it actually.
Yoon Jin Sup: So, you just work by yourself...
Kim Ku Lim: I have just focused on my own work. That has been what I have always thought.
Yoon Jin Sup: I have another question related to the one before. You lived in the States for a long time and also lived in Paris and Japan. How long did you live in Japan?
Kim Ku Lim: About three years.
Yoon Jin Sup: You lived there for three years. So, if you see the situation in foreign countries, there must be no differences in talent among Koreans, Japanese and Americans, but I think funding systems or supporting systems for artists in Korea is still inferior to the others, even though it is getting better. Cause an great artist like you also have worked by yourself.
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, I have worked by myself without an assistant.
Yoon Jin Sup: But the artists like Damian Hirst or Jeff Koons have more than a hundred of assistants even though they are young and they make their ideas work. When I see it, I don't think it's a matter of talent. What do you think about it?
Kim Ku Lim: I think it changes with the changing time. It was used be thought that artists must work on their own works, but now, the notion has changed. Not only Jeff Koons and Damian Hirst, there are many artists who complete their art works with their ideas and assistants. I guess that was derived from capitalism. I mean galleries want to sell more art works and consider it as a way of growing wealthy. I am not saying that is wrong, but to be honest, I am jealous of them some times.
Yoon Jin Sup: Of Course.
Kim Ku Lim: Also, if I were in those conditions, I also have works to do like that, but I feel sorry cause I cannot afford it.
Yoon Jin Sup: I think Korea is also becoming like that as our country is developing.
Kim Ku Lim: Yes, it is.
Yoon Jin Sup: We have been working for living so far as there is a saying 'A loaf of bread is better than the song of many birds'. Now we are moving on to next level, and this project is also a part of the process. I think if the time comes that your art works become globally famous and exhibited in many of famous galleries in the world, we can also become global artists like Chinese artists did in a short time.
I participated International Association of Art Critics' general meeting and congress and I think it also means that Korean criticism is developed that much. So, I believe lots of good things will happen, if you stay with us for long. Lastly, looking back your works, do you have any thing you think you must mention?
Kim Ku Lim: Actually, even though I want to develop myself more as an artist, it is hard without financial support because it is not like the old days when painting was the only thing we worked on. You can't make your dreams come true without it. I have lots of drawings of what I wanted to create, but I haven't realized a tenth of them. I have ambition to realize them before I die. It's a wish rather than ambition. If my works sold well I make more money, I would love to work on the ones even though they need many assistants.
Yoon Jin Sup: Good, so you have a plan to publish a book of your paintings...
Kim Ku Lim: Actually I have no book of my paintings so far. I have felt lack of something all the time. Now, I am planning to make one, and I think you can see it next year.
Yoon Jin Sup: Good. Your painting book will come out soon. I think this is the time when your unique art world is gradually becoming famous in the world, so I believe more good things will happen in the future. What you should do for now is do your best to create more good works. Thank you for participating this interview.
Kim Ku Lim: Thank you.
Interviewer: Dr. Yoon Jin Sup
Director of photography, audio and lighting: Francois Saikally
Video editor: Francois Saikally
Transcription & Translation: Stacey Kim
Director: Dr. Bob Jansen
Technical & assembly: Dr. Bob Jansen